Problems with astrometeorology

Hi, everybody, long time no see.

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I was studying Astrometeorology for some time and wanted to share some thoughts and frustrations about it.

Modern Astrometeorology

Modern astrometerology is not as bad as modern astrology. When you are dealing with the climate you don´t have space for pretentious and obnoxious statements like “oh, to me astrology should be about spiritual development”.

The weather alternativa will study every single Astrocartography line in a map. And will use several maps. Ingresses, eclipses, lunations… As common in modern astrology, the “gold” is in the action of modern planets uranus, neptune and pluto. Poor wet moon has little to say compared to attention seeker neptune. I like this blog because he always predicts BEFORE the fact (which should be obvious, but it is not). But to tell the truth, I am not sure how much of the time he is correct. I know that trying to emulate his method could be very complicated. Too many charts, too many lines, and too many things happening at each and every moment.

But as always, my focus is on traditional astrology. We have no example in traditional sources. Nina Gryphon tried traditional astrometeorological analysis for some time, but she is the only I know. Unfortunately there are some “authorities” that claim to use traditional techniques but in fact were based only on modern authors like C. Zain and will say that Jupiter is a “dry” planet, so I rather not comment or link to the so called authority.

Kim Farnell gives a basic introduction to astrometerology. She doesn´t give her sources, so I believe she is following only C. Zain. It should be considered modern astrology, because as far as I know most of those rules have no appearance in any traditional source.


Frawley has a little chapter about it in the Real Astrology (p.139-143). He gives no examples or methodology, and he never wrote about it anywhere else, so I believe he never tried it in practice. Almost everything is the same as in every other source (look at lunations, ingresses, etc), but his advice on delineation is below:

- If possible, do a horary question, which is simpler (I agree with that).

-Look at angular planets (e.g, Jupiter for rain)

- Look at fixed stars on the ASC. There is a huge difference between a star of Jupiter nature exactly on the Midheaven and the same star just a degree or two away.

- Occultation of fixed stars (Frawley doesn´t say how this can be used for a specific location – it is obvious that any occultation will effect worldwide).

- After having a broad outlook, you can use ingresses for each of the signs, and the charts for the four quarters of the moon.

- The weather day by day can be determined by the distance between aspecting planets in the previous charts; by the rising and setting of fixed stars (heliacal rising, probably),  and by a chart for sunrise of the day (no exemplification offered).

-He suggests the use of the following arabian parts

  • Winds (ASC + Dispositor Mercury – Mercury);
  • Fire and Heat (ASC + Mars – Sun),
  • Clouds (ASC + Saturn – Mars);
  • Rains (ASC + Venus -Moon);
  • and Cold (ASC + Saturn – Mercury)

As Frawley doesn´t give any real example, it is hard to have any sense of hierarchy and methodology in his system (if he has one). Of course, he is not the only one, and all the examples above have the same problem. For instance:

1 – if we are going to use the ingress and the previous lunation, which one of them have priority? In what sense we should “look at them two”? Should we mix indications? Imagine that the ingress has a strong Jupiter, and the previous lunation has a strong mars. Can we say that we will see rains and thunderstorm? If one promises rain and the other chart is dry, it will be “just mild” ? Should the two charts confirm each other to have any result besides what is common on the region?

2 – Frawley gives the example of Jupiter in pisces as a “wet jupiter”. Obviously Jupiter will stay in pisces for at least a whole year, and it is doubtful that it will rain all over the world more than normal. Jupiter in pisces is a worldwide event, and a long one at that. We often find this problem in traditional sources like Mashallah.

3 – How can we differenciate the mundane events from the astrometeorological? An angular mars can be public unrest, but also a thunderstorm?

4 – The ingress of the sun into Libra should say about the weather for three months. The ingress of the sun into Scorpio should say a little about this solar month. Is it a problem that some months are ruled by two ingress charts (one for the station and other for the month), while the first month of the station (e.g. Libra) is ruled only by the ingress in Libra?

As I told before, this is not a criticism of Frawley: these are questions that I haven´t found answered on the tradition so far. So, we will have to dig deeper.


Bonatti in “On Rains” (Dykes translation – p 1417-1453) have a rather simple method compared to other authors:

- Look at the new and full moon.

- See which planet is aspect the degree of the lunation (or, if you want to be more precise, he usually says to look which planet will the moon aspect after the lunation).

- You will combine the indication of the planet with the lunar mansion in which the lunation occurred and the lunar mansion in which the aspected planet is!

Bonatti obviously mention other techniques, like ingresses, but he doesn´t seem to be committed to them. What he really seems to be interested is on the interpretation of the lunations on the mansions of the moon.

The use of the lunar mansions is interesting. A lunation will always happen in the same sign each month, but not necessarily will happen at the same moon mansion. If we consider the planet that the lunation aspects, and the lunar mansion of this aspected planet, we have a lot more information. But, of course, this is a general information and we have no way to know if our prediction of a “wet month” will be valid for India or for California.

When discussing Ptolemy, Bonatti says to use the almuten of the ascendent of the lunation quarters. This would be a hint, but it seems that Bonatti is discussing Ptolemy more due to respect than something that he is personally suggesting. Anyway, this is the only hint of how to make those indications more “local”.

Mashallah  - “Chapter of the rains in the year” and “On Rains”  (Dykes translation – p. 309-323).

How to look for “local” influences? Mashallash says to use the term ruler of the ASC of the ingress into Aries. For instance “if the owner of the year was found to be Jupiter, and it were made unfortunate by one of the unfortunate planets, then the rains will lessen and there will be no deterioration in the atmosphere or the winds like there was with the corruption of mercury”

To him, moon, venus and mercury indicate abundance of rains and sun, mars and saturn prohibit the rains (except if Saturn is in a sign of rains). I am not sure what he thought about Jupiter.

Mashallah has an interesting technique, that I haven´t find in other authors: He says to look at the moon in the lunation chart. If she is with venus or mercury, then it will rain at that month. “And if you want correction of that, then if the moon, when it has reached the stakes and is connected with Venus or mercury, then in that day it rains”.  This seem an interesting technique, specially for our modern global times. We can cast the chart for the several lunations and ingresses and wait for the moon to reach the angles. This both avoid the problem of non-locality of the ingress chart, and the problem of using the same time (meaning the planets in the same position) for the condition of every part of the globe.

It is interesting that Mashallah first recommend to use the ingress of the sun into Scorpio. After that, he talks about the usual ingresses. Why is the ingress into scorpio so important? No explanation that I know about, but Bonatti also quotes this ingress, so I can only imagine that his sources also talked about it. In page 316, instead of the ingress into scorpio, he says that the chart should be casted for the ingress into the 19th degree of Scorpio (same degree commented in Bonatti).

“when the sun enters the first minute of the twentieth degree of Scorpìo, take the ascendant. If it were a watery sign, and if it were a watery sign, and the moon is in a watery one, and likewise venus, the beginning of winter will be raining and the end moistening.”

Most of the indications used by Mashallah are not useful for us: “if venus is in a watery sign”, “if venus is oriental” are not very local indications. And, if are using the ingresses charts that he indicates, well, venus will be oriental for the whole world, Saturn will be in cancer for two and a half years, etc. But Mashallah seems to think that the heavy planets are good indicators of the general weather, despite their slowness: “know the signs of the heavy planets, namely whether they are hot or cold. Which if they were hot, it will signify heat in the summer, but the temperateness of the air in the winter(…) if the heavy planets were all oriental, they will signify dryness, and if they were all occidental, they signify a multitude of rains in the winter….” (p. 303)

On page 302 (On the Roots of Revolutions) he says that eclipses of the moon in the cold signs brings cold, in water signs brings rains, if the season supported it. If it were summer, than it will signify the temperateness of the air.


Partial conclusions

I am still studying Abu Mashar, and I want to have a look at Morin and Ptolemy, but untill now, I can say that:

- the ancients seem to have little worry about locality. The fact that Jupiter will be in pisces for a whole year, for the whole world, doesn´t seem to bother then much. The times were not global then, and it probably was very difficult to know if it was raining 200 km east of where you were. To worry about the weather in India would probably not be in their minds.

- The suggestions about locality are not coherent between authors: Bonatti says to use the almuten of the quarters, but do not explain how. Mashallaw says to use the term ruler of the ascendant of the ingress chart. Mashallah would use transits to the angle of a lunar chart as a “Trigger” of the promises of that chart for that specific place on earth.

- Many of the factors quoted as “traditional astrology” (for instance “look at the 4th house”), don´t seem to be commented by these two traditional source and should not be treated as automatic truths. I didn´t find reference of using the ingresses into other signs (like gemini), or to fixed stars. But apparently this method is used in vedic astrology.


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3 comments on “Problems with astrometeorology
  1. Nina Gryphon says:

    Hi Yuzuru!

    Traditional astrometeorology is fascinating, but I agree with you there are a lot of unanswered questions.

    You correctly ask about localization for charts – that Jupiter Pisces is only relevant when it is in a key position in a mundane horoscope. A couple of years ago, I put together extensive notes on Morin’s method, and it is a sensible working method, as it focuses on angularity and investigating a set of charts. One unanswered question for me is that the charts we review for weather are largely the same ones we review for political changes – does that mean that whenever we have Mars ascending in a location we get war AND a heat wave? Obviously not, so my investigations have to do with how we distinguish among the indicators.


    • yuzuru says:

      Hi, Nina
      thanks for commenting

      My doubt is more or less the same as you. The same chart that affects the weather will affect the humours of human kind? And the stock market? And fires? etc.

      Of course, it is not just because of an angular mars that we will have a war… but maybe we will see a little more urban violence. It would be interesting to make a study with statistics. The main problem is that angularity is very random, but violence can be subjected to long term trends.

      My view would be that we have to see these mundane charts combined with the foundation charts to see any relevance. Of course, find the correct foundation can be tricky, but mundane charts are sooooo much easy than the eternal search of “natal charts” for countries, the example of USA is always a must.

      best regards

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